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Original by Hermant Mehta: friendlyatheist.com/2009/04/21…

Nothing is by me.
People who object to homosexuality can object away, but I will not bother with replying to you.

-----------------
The Religious Right keeps saying gay-rights activists are “redefining marriage”:

  "Changing the definition of marriage would undermine the very nature that gives marriage its unique status in society. Ultimately, forcing marriage to mean all things will force marriage to mean nothing at all. (The Heritage Foundation) "

The same group of people also goes on about how God loves gay people:

    "God loves homosexuals. He loves them just as he loves every other human on the planet.
    …
    People living a homosexual lifestyle are sinners like the rest of us and, like the rest of us, they are people created by God and loved by God. As such, we are called to love in whatever sinful state we happen to find them. "




I say this to the religious people who oppose marriage equality:

You think we’re redefining marriage?

How can you accuse us of that when you’ve done something far worse?

You redefined love.

“Love the sinner, hate the sin”? Please…

For you, “love” means making sure gay people cannot adopt a child who needs a home.

For you, “love” means stripping away the marital status of gay couples who were legally married in California before Proposition 8 took effect.

For you, “love” means accepting someone only if they never act on their sexuality.

For you, “love” means putting our country at risk if gay people in our military dare mention they are in a same-sex relationship.

For you, “love” means allowing doctors to refuse patients who need their help because the patients are gay.

For you, “love” means preventing homosexuals from serving in leadership positions for organizations like the Boy Scouts because you oppose their sexual orientation.

For you, “love” means telling someone else what they can and cannot do in the privacy of their bedroom.

For you, “love” means removing your children from school for a day so they can’t witness other students taking a stand for LGBT rights.



I know we’ve heard the rebuttal to this notion of “redefining marriage” — marriage has been redefined a countless number of times. From a property arrangement to a love marriage to interracial marriage, etc. The definition of marriage has never been static.

But how dare Christians make that accusation: You’re redefining marriage.

They say it like we’ve done something wrong.

How dare you belittle us for trying to promote equality and marriage and civil rights?

You’re Christians. Aren’t those values you’re supposed to endorse?

We are not trying to change how your church operates or how you practice your faith. We’re not telling you how to live your life. We’re not forcing you to adopt our beliefs.

Who is showing more love here?
Add a Comment:
 
:icontregnier2795:
TRegnier2795 Featured By Owner May 30, 2009
This article actually brought a tear to my eye.
Reply
:iconnintendogal55:
NintendoGal55 Featured By Owner May 14, 2009  Hobbyist Writer
Thank you for finding all this and posting it up for everyone to see! :clap:

I myself am a lesbian, and I can say right now to anyone that being gay or bi, whichever, is the furthest thing from a choice. *DarkPhoenixIncarnate is exactly right. :nod:

I also agree with what ~indecisive-x said, about how even homophobes have the right to an opinion. Yes, that 's true, even if I want to smack homophobes upside the head. I guess as long as they just stay on the line of bitching and whining and saying how much we are an "abomination" and "sinners", that's tolerable.

But when they bring out something like Prop 8 that actually DOES go against our rights, then that is going way too far, actually stepping into personal lives. That's completely inexcusable. It really does make asses of themselves and a lot worse than the "abominating sinners" they make us out to be.

I said this very thing about racism, that they use personal experience, ignorance and history as an excuse for how much homosexuality and/or a certain race is oh-so bad.

So, as long as being a homo or of a different race actually causes harm to other people in any kind of way, they really have no argument at all. ^_^
Reply
:iconrebelatheart:
rebelatheart Featured By Owner Apr 27, 2009
Religion and state should be separated by definition. Ergo: if a gay couple wants to get married in a church, the church has the right to say no, but if they want to get married at the town hall, they should have that right. Period.
Reply
:iconmorgan-666:
Morgan-666 Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2009  Hobbyist Writer
Utmost gratitude for posting you opinions on this {as semi-solid and general as they may be}! disregard the comments made by
ramaeschlimann-who obviously has no concious mind.
In the end, all I can say is that people like you and I must tolerate those who are more ignorant than us,mainly those who,like the aforementioned,are retaliating our/your reasonable arguments with unsupported and illogical belief systems that cannot be fully accepted as true evidence of conclusion.
In other words,you know someone is crazy when they quote a book written and translated over thousands of years into the hysteric mess it is today. You are more well-informed in terms of reality than them.
Reply
:icongiorjoe:
giorjoe Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2009  Professional General Artist
What does this topic have to do with art?
Only art-related articles please!
Reply
:icont-weaver:
T-Weaver Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's in the culture-happenings folder. In the news section.
It doesn't have to have anything to do with art.
Reply
:iconlastsummergoodbye:
LastSummerGoodbye Featured By Owner Apr 26, 2009
Just be careful of who your accusing when you mention gay rights.

I do understand that a lot of Christians are against gay marriage, but I also know an equal amount of people who oppose homosexuality that aren't Christians. Sometimes they belong to another religious group and other times they're not religious at all, so when you are making articles such as this one be very mindful of who you're accusing.

I also understand that you're not talking to Christians who are open to homosexuality, but it's just a heads up. ;)

I personally don't have an offensive view on homosexuality, but at the same time I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and with that, everyone is entitled to their own privacy.

Basically saying, if you have something against gays, so be it, just don't become violent and oppressive towards others and their views. Know that they have reasons why think it's right. That goes the same the other way around.

If you are an activist of gay rights, that's great, but be very careful of the way you speak up because someone can take your words offensively and use that against you and when that happens, the things that you are fighting for can be ripped apart.

I guess you can say I'm rather passive on this subject, but as I've stated before everyone has their own opinions and instead of pointing fingers and calling names, it's better we learn how to control ourselves when voicing what we think is right.
Reply
:icondmillustration:
dmillustration Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2009  Professional
Interesting article. I agree with a lot of it. I happened by this news by chance, and I think you may be interested in Eshto's gallery, he has numerous arguments arguing in favor gay marriage and how marriage is in the bible ----> [link]
Reply
:icont-weaver:
T-Weaver Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ah, I think I have seen that person's first, somewhat disturbing imagery, of marriage in the bible c: thanks!
Reply
:iconwyrmlover:
wyrmlover Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2009
Yeah, I wish people would be more tolerant. ):

*sigh* You have no idea how many people have told me that it's "unnatural" to be gay. (I'm straight, btw; so that there's no confusion later)

It really ticks me off when some jerkoff wants to go into someone else's life and try to change something that will NEVER AFFECT THEM, whilst claiming that they are Christian (not every homophobe is Christian, I know that) when God's very first commandment says "Judge not lest ye be judged".
Reply
:iconorcaowl:
OrcaOwl Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2009  Student Digital Artist
I think we should just go to Vermont... heh.

Love this, btw.
Reply
:iconaseamlessbond:
Aseamlessbond Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2009
Hmmm Well I will leave religion out of it, I think that is a topic best left to the people of those faiths to deal with.
I must say though I am sick and tired of relationships being picked apart on a sexual basis, a sucessful partnership/marriage is based primarily on love and 2 people wanting to spend the rest of their lives together, sex is part of the cement that binds the whole thing together. I don't see how that is any different in a same sex partnership/marriage. Live & let live! :hug:
Reply
:iconavalik:
Avalik Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2009
The dictionary redefined marriage in their 2002 edition, not gay people.

:iconimhappyplz:

But really, great article.
Reply
:iconvekke:
Vekke Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009
this argument makes me the most tired :( I'll never understand why people waste their time fighting against something that doesn't affect them and that they'll never know about (honestly, the less big a deal they make about this, the less they'll hear about it)

even if your argument is about saving their souls, they're going to be gay anyway so why fight so hard against it? i just don't see the point...
Reply
:icondeathphage:
deatHpHage Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Hobbyist General Artist
I share your sentiments :)
Reply
:iconel-jorro:
El-Jorro Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009
AMEN!!!
Reply
:iconfadenblade:
FadenBlade Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Hobbyist General Artist
To stand for my beliefs, I would like to take the time to mention I support the gay, lesbian, and bi-sexual culture in America and across the world.

I am a Christian.

You love who you love, and love is love no matter what what gender, race, or culture you are from. It is all about acceptance, and I feel bothered when other Christians put down the gay and bi communities around me.
My only issue seems to be when some things are pushed onto me. Take one of my friends, for example, she is bi-sexual and every time she comes near me she tries to kiss me on the lips and hangs all over me. It bothers me, and she knows this. Then again, there is the issue with Miss California, who lost the crown for Miss America for her personal beliefs. I personally respect your community, gay, bi, and lesbian. There are people out there who may not agree with your life style but respect you and your choices. I give respect, such as participating in the day of silence (yes, I was one of the ones who took it seriously) but please realize, some of us would appreciate not being penalized for our beliefs. I would not like to be accused for what other Christians do and how other Christians handle the gay community.

As I mentioned before, it is about acceptance. I accept your opinion, your belief, for I agree the gay community has been going through a lot. (And you still are) If I found my friend was being persecuted for her beliefs I would immediately address it. But, as a caution, it takes both sides to cooperate for there to be a change.
"People who object to homosexuality can object away, but I will not bother with replying to you. "
By not bothering, one way of communication is closed. Show them your love. Even if you have tried and tried, try a different way.
Reply
:icont-weaver:
T-Weaver Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sorry, by bothering with, I meant people who just post "homosexuality is evil!" and run off.
Reply
:iconfadenblade:
FadenBlade Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Hobbyist General Artist
I apologize, I didn't mean to sound harsh, if I came off that way.
I completely understand. Most of the people who do that, I have come to find, have little or no maturity. Hopefully, people who do the flame and run, will mature in time.
Reply
:iconzarhx:
zarhx Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009
I've seen growing support for homosexuality in my generation.
Hopefully this isn't just my community, but most areas.
I think our generation is becoming more open minded, and I hope I'm not the only one seeing this change.
Reply
:iconprincessgaara:
princessgaara Featured By Owner May 18, 2009   Traditional Artist
It's true. A lot of younger people, even my mom who's almost 40, are becoming more accepting of the gay community. What gets me is when people use the term "gay lifestyle." If gay is a lifestyle, then straight must be too, but if I were to say "straight lifestyle" there'd be hell to pay!
Reply
:iconzarhx:
zarhx Featured By Owner May 18, 2009
I fully agree. (: There are tons of double standards in our society like that..

For example, there are tons of scholarships for minority groups, and even schools exclusive to some minority group. Yet, if there were some benefit available only to whites, or some other majority, like you said, there'd be hell. xD
Reply
:iconprincessgaara:
princessgaara Featured By Owner May 18, 2009   Traditional Artist
Seriously! It's all madness, I say. I'm constantly at odds with myself and my beliefs, so I definately don't go around telling other people they suck. It is annoying to constantly be smacked over the head with *insert holy text here* because what I believe isn't the same as the majority. And I might add that you can't use the Bible to back up the Bible. Wtf is that? I'm Christian but I do believe there's nothing wrong with freethinking.
Reply
:iconzarhx:
zarhx Featured By Owner May 19, 2009
Agreed <3 Free thinking is something we should all learn to use. Manners is something else that everyone should learn though. xD
Reply
:iconprincessgaara:
princessgaara Featured By Owner May 20, 2009   Traditional Artist
For some reason the extremely religious feel as if manners don't apply to them. XD I found the most ridiculous website that said people with large vocabularies that talk and think a lot weren't absolute believers, but people who acted like tools were. How silly is that?
Reply
:iconzarhx:
zarhx Featured By Owner May 20, 2009
Lmao. Sounds like a website I'd enjoy reading over. xD
Reply
:iconprincessgaara:
princessgaara Featured By Owner May 20, 2009   Traditional Artist
You want the link? I could get it for you. XD
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconjetyra-luck:
Jetyra-Luck Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Student Digital Artist
I'm gay, I'll say that first. But I want to share something my dad said, that got me thinking.

He isn't homophobic, he passively supports total equality, but one day the topic of gay marriage came up and he said he didn't understand why gays got so mad about the gay marriage thing. He said that marriage began, and in a sense, still is a religious thing. So in a sense, if christians don't want gays to be married under their roof, it's their right. What gay person would want to go into the house of those that dislike them and ask for the rules to be changed so they can get married? My dad said it was like going up to your enemy and asking them to change so you could be proclaimed something by their faith.

Now before I get flamed! I don't 100% believe what my dad said, and I don't agree with him, he's dense at times, and he really doesn't fully understand what being gay is and what the battle is for. But I found what he said as interesting. Sure, if you're christian and gay, I think you should be able to get married in that way, I also think hindu gays should be able to get married in a hindu way. But at the same time, it's a bit like being black, and going into an anti-black religion and wanting to get married under their roof.

I don't really know the perks of marriage, if it's just a status, or if there's more too it then that. But either way, I DO think there should be someway of gays getting joined, or married, or mated, or whatever you want to call it. But maybe something without the religious part of it.

Don't hurt me too hard, I really don't understand politics and I don't spend my time looking up stuff on gay rights and marriage >.> and I'm in Canada.

PS, all that other stuff is sickening. I didn't know that was the case at all for gays. Hell, why not make a lay saying I can harass someone because I don't like their face? :\
Reply
:icont-weaver:
T-Weaver Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ah, but the thing is the non-religious can get married without any religious involvement at all...so why not at least offer that option?
People like ceremonies and celebrations and everyone is raised to know about weddings - be they religious or not.

(I'd prefer to elope with a small gathering of friends/family in a nice quiet place myself).
Reply
:iconjetyra-luck:
Jetyra-Luck Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2009  Student Digital Artist
That's pretty much my stance. Gays should be allowed to get married. It's just the whole "marriage" thing itself is something of a religious thing that has become part of our culture, and it always seems that being such, it gives the church some power to pick and choose who they want to marry. It's like if you needed car insurance but you had to not eat red meat and pray to Krishna because only hindu's hand out car insurance, even though it's something the government pushes you to have. Or like up here, I think Quebec has made snow tires manditory in winter. But you have to fork out the cash. Manditory spending. Ugh.

But I'll say now (and again) I really have no idea what I'm talking about. I don't really understand all of this so take what I say with a grain of rice ^^;
Reply
:icont-weaver:
T-Weaver Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah...except people forget the church isn't a mandatory part of a marriage, or the priest. Those are optional these days, what with the wide variety of religions/beliefs etc. There's even non-religious weddings.

It's a very confused/tangled button but gay marriage would not force church's to marry people - they can choose to do that. It's the civil right's side, not the ceremony, that people are fighting for (although permission to have a ceremony too would be nice. it was shot down in australia after being voted for because our "leader" said a ceremony made it too much like marriage and therefore can not be allowed.)
Reply
:iconjetyra-luck:
Jetyra-Luck Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2009  Student Digital Artist
Ahh! See that's what I didn't know.
Reply
:iconjessysketches:
JessySketches Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Student General Artist
I believe that you cannot stop people from loving one another, regardless of race, sexuality and social status and religion.

One day, this wont be such a big issue. Many years ago, interracial marriage was looked down upon. Now its not such a big deal.
Reply
:iconnaminational:
Naminational Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009
in the end why cant we all get along?

:3 great article!
Reply
:iconanaisa-kira:
Anaisa-Kira Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009
there are hetero couples that treat their children like rubbish, for example the south african family that kept their 6 sons at home without eating for months
two policemen found them and brought them to a mcdonalds after detenting the parents, and everything they said was "we think slimness is purity"
what i mean is wether gay couples are worse than this
if this children were in a gay couple that takes care of them as they deserve, would a christian think they were better with the hetero couple? honestly?
Reply
:icont-weaver:
T-Weaver Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
There are some people out there who think it's better for a kid to be in abusive male-female family than in a loving lesbian/gay family.
:[
Reply
:iconanaisa-kira:
Anaisa-Kira Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2009
yes :(
they shouldn't say a homo couple i bad fr a kid if they had not any prove of it
Reply
:iconjessysketches:
JessySketches Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Student General Artist
Ive seen crap happen to kids all the time, but it doesn't matter the sexuality of the parents.

Ive seen children beaten in a grocery store, people leaving their children in malls alone, children walking home from school on dangerous streets and kids with cuts and bruises but the parents don't care.

There's a serious issue and you can't tell someone how to "take care of their children" because the way their doing it seems normal to them.

I have a unfit aunt who took government aid, loans, maxed out credit cards and everything else she could get to feed her drug addictions. Her kids were always in rags, the kids were never bathed and always had cuts all over. Eventually the kids were taken away and the grandmother raised them for 3 years. They were doing well in school, clean cut and well behaved. When the mother became clean off drugs she got her children back and she's back to her same antics except she's a alcoholic now. She wont take care of her youngest son who has autism, her older son drinks, smokes and steals and the daughter is at the breaking point of just trying to find other family to take her in and she's only 13. The father is in the picture, but he mostly just sends money home because he works out of state.

Some people shouldn't be parents at all.
Reply
:iconanaisa-kira:
Anaisa-Kira Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009
u.u yup it's right
but i mean, there are some worse hetero couples than some homo couples
and my question is wether a christian would or not defend the hetero couple even if it's worse for the kids
Reply
:iconjessysketches:
JessySketches Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Student General Artist
Most likely.
A majority of my family is christian and yet they seem blind when it comes to good parenting and choices.
They say God will guide their children to making good choices, yet I find it hilarious that most of them will be "guided" right into prison.
Lolololol.
Reply
:iconanaisa-kira:
Anaisa-Kira Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009
hahaha xD
i prefer to follow my own intuition u.ú
Reply
:iconjessysketches:
JessySketches Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Student General Artist
Better than following a absent being. lololol.
Reply
:iconanaisa-kira:
Anaisa-Kira Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009
yeah xDD
much better to get lost
following him i'll probably get lost anyway...
Reply
:iconjessysketches:
JessySketches Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Student General Artist
Lol. x3
Reply
:iconreita:
Reita Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009   Digital Artist
now i'm somewhat happier living in germany, where i can marry my partner if i wish to, eventhough gay couples still don't have the exact same perks as heterosexual couples....for example with taxes and stuff...

seeing this makes me always think that christians are somewhat hypocritical :/
Reply
:iconprincessgaara:
princessgaara Featured By Owner May 18, 2009   Traditional Artist
Not all Christians are like that...I'm Christian but I'm all for gay rights and I even actively share my opinions about it. People have differing beliefs from mine, but that doesn't mean I don't get along with them or even respect them. Nobody has it all figured out, and I'm fully prepared to accept the possibility that I could very well be wrong. I think a lot of the people who protest gay rights are the "preach but not practice" types. There are a lot of good, unassuming people from all religions who seek to do what's right whether society agrees or not. ^^
Reply
:iconreita:
Reita Featured By Owner May 18, 2009   Digital Artist
sure,you've got a really good point there. i fully agree with you and i never ment to put all christians in one place and labeling everyone as hypocrite just because of their believes. i'm just a bit fed up with all this "don't you know that it is wrong what you're doing , it's written in the bible etc etc"
Reply
:iconprincessgaara:
princessgaara Featured By Owner May 19, 2009   Traditional Artist
I completely understand. I have a bit of a disdain for organized religion for that reason. I don't see God sitting there pointing at people saying, "WRONG WRONG WRONG!" That's people who do that. If they're busy with other people's lives, they don't have to face the faults of their own.
Reply
:iconmelyanna:
melyanna Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I strongly agree with you, but I think that it can be really difficult for the older generations of people to understand and accept gay relationships and gay marriage.
It is our own generation that, I believe, will be able to change things.
It's good to start discussing it now, it is a great thing, but to see *real* changes we will have to wait for a bit more years.
Well... I, living in Italy, I will probably have to wait much longer, the pope being in Rome and all...
Reply
:icont-weaver:
T-Weaver Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Still, better than Iraq! Or Egypt! :C
Reply
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